No Easy Answers

Sunday, February 18, 2007

Libby Case - Juror Questions

Juror questions and witness answers, collected from a variety of sources and, for the most part, not sterilized of the sources' editorial remarks.

In some caes, follow-up questions were asked (of the witness) by counsel for the defense or the prosecution. Links provided above each "Q & A" so you may review context for yourself.

Grossman - January 24

from James Joyner ...

Q. Did State have anything to do with sending Wilson on trip to Niger?

A. No.

Q. Who sent him?

A. CIA as far as I know.

Q. What documents did you review in preparation for your testimony here?

A. The grand jury documents.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Q. Did State have ANYTHING to do with her trip.

A. No, as far as I know.
The responsible agency was the CIA.Mbr> As far as you know did the State Department have anything to do with this.

Q. What material did you review?

A. I reviewed my GJ testimony.

Q. Did you review FBI statements.

A. I was shown it in small bits.

Grenier - January 24

No Questions

Schmall - January 25

from James Joyner ...

At return at 10:26, Judge Walton is denying a request from the jury to enter Schmall's annotated table of contents into evidence, as it is not relevant to either side's case. A modified version of the document, stripped of classified information, has already been admitted.

This is resulting in a lengthy back-and-forth with the defense insisting that it should be entered into evidence because it goes directly to Schmall's credibility. The government contends that it is merely a back door way of getting in to the "memory defense," which they are not legally permitted to do unless Libby testifies. It strikes me as obvious that the reason the defense wants to emphasize the document is, in fact, to point out how people's memories of important things diminishes over time.

At 11:17, the judge instructed the jury that the questions about the content of the memo by Mr. Klein during cross-x are not evidence, only the responses by Mr. Schmall.

Walton also asked a question from a juror: "What do you mean when you say `independent recollection.'" "Yes sir. That's recollection without reference to notes I have written."

Another question from a juror: "Who wrote the notes on the documents." "That was my handwriting, sir."

Another question about what the "T" annotation meant. It referred to a tasker. The "T" visible on the memo in question was in reference to a redacted item, not the Wilson matter. "There are a lot of questions that I'm asked that I don't put into a formal tasker."

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton (juror question). What do you mean "independent recollection." what's your understanding of what you say. A recollection w/o the benefit of looking at notes I may have written.

Walton. TOC June 2003-who would have written it?

Schmall That was my handwriting.

Walton June 14 2003-there was no T on it. What does the T represent?

S to represent a tasking.

Walton You did not put a T on it

S Not in reference to that-it referred to something that was redacted.

Walton Does the absence of a T have significance?

S there are a lot of questions asked that I don't put into a formal tasking.

Walton that entry why did you put that there.

S I would have written a question down of something I didn't have an answer to. If I get a question I don't know the answer to, I'll write it down. I wasn't able to answer it, but we didn't consider it a formal tasking.

Walton You indicated in ref to Libby having concerns about CIA people revealing info on briefing. You said he was irritated.

S Annoyed

Walton What's the basis for your belief he was annoyed?

S Tone of voice, body language.

Martin - January 29

from Rory O'Connor ...

After a recess, Judge Walton notes that there is no dispute that the NIE had been declassified before Libby disclosed it on July 8, 2003 to Andrea Mitchell of NBC News -- although Ms. Martin was unaware of that at the time. He also confirms with Martin that she knew and conveyed that Valerie Plame worked with CIA and was an agent.

from Kevin Aylward ...

Regarding the NIE and her Andrea Mitchell call. She (Martin) always advocated declassifying the NIE, but was a a bit concerned when Cheney told her to go with it in her call, since she was still under the impression that it was classified. The judge asked her about that, and what (if any) action she took on that concern. She noted that she didn't take any further action "because the Vice President of the United States told me to say it."

July 8, 2003 - No dispute that certain portions had been declasified, but Martin didn't know that.

Libby/Cooper call - In same room, on another call. Did you ever ask him what he said while you were on the other call? No.

Harlow - Joe Wilson. His wife "works over there." Her notes indicate CIA agent, but the call didn't say that.

Was it unusual for the communicators not to be involved when responding to the press? Yes.

Have there been other instances when you felt reporters didn't get the story right? Yes (big courtroom laugh).

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton-a juror question: In reference to call between Libby and Mitchell, you indicated some concerns about NIE being revealed. Can you tell us what your concerns were?

M I thought the NIE was classified, and we shouldn't talk about it.

Walton, did you do anything, inform anyone about that.

M I was still not clear what it mean when VP says, "you can say this." I was still urging them to declassify it and disclose it to the public.

Walton, if you had concerns, why didn't you take action?

M BC VP of US had told me to say it, I didn't know where I was going to go. [she had this snitty tone, as if to say 'what are you, kidding? he's the VP']

Walton, in reference to the questions I was asking the witness, There is no dispute between the parties that on July 8 2003, that certain portions of the NIE had been declassified although Ms. Martin had not been made aware of the declassification.

Walton, in reference to the discussion that Libby had to Cooper at Andrews AFB, you indicated that certain portions of that conversation you didn't hear bc you were on another telephone call, you were in the same room, but on a call. Did you ever ask him what he said to Cooper while you were on the other telephone.

M No.

Walton When you discussed your first telephone call with Mr. Harlow. How did you describe Ms. Wilson's employement

M I believe I said, former Ambassador Joe Wilson his wife worked over there, I didn't say she was an agent, but I wrote it in my notes.

Walton you didn't say that

M No.

Walton Was it unusual not to involve the communicators when responses being made to inquiries by the press. Did you have concerns about communicators not being included. [damn good question, juror!!]

M I was concerend about DC. I wasn't aware about what was going on on the Plane, I was concerned that we couldn't advise them about this matter.

Walton refers to an exhibit, asks why Hadley and Scooter got crossed off of her notes. I was thinking about who could be "actors," crossed that out then wrote "messengers," then I crossed out Hadley and Scooter I thought they weren't the appropriate Admin people, we needed to have, not the deputies, not the number 2s we needed the number 1.

Walton do you believe reporters got stories wrong and ommitted critical facts. What would you do?

M reporters often get things incorrect. You have to make a judgment call to decide whether you're going to confront the reporter, whether you're going to ask for a correction. We often have back and forth, they don't want to do corrections because they believe they were right. In some cases I feel that it would be productive. In some cases I won, In some cases I lost. I guess in reference to Kristof, if you don't have relationship and I didn't have a relationship and it was a columnist who tended to not agree with us, to be a little more aggressive to us, you might aggravate and create another story by calling them on it.

Fleischer - January 29

from Rory O'Connor ...

Judge Walton then asks why Fleischer didn't say anything about Valerie Plame at a press gaggle on July 12, 2003. Fleischer says again that he just didn't think it was so important at that time -- more important was explaining that the President had not intentionally misled the public. Walton asks if Fleischer had ever thought the Plame information was classified, given that Libby had told him it weas "hush-hush." He says he never heard that phrase before -- and whenever anyone told him something classified, they informed him ahead of time that it was so.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton: [re juror questions] Some of the questions you have submitted would call for this witness to speculate.

Walton: At the gaggle with Dr. Rice, why did you at that time on July 12, why didn't you say anuthing about Wilson?

Fl I didn't think much that I had been provided at that lunch, after I saw that CBS report, what struck me was that could be that people believed Wilson's report, if they thought the VP knew about it they might think the Pres knew it. So I thought I'd try this.

Sidebar again.

Ari smiling at someone. Now looking toward sidebar.

In answer to Richmond-Ari is quite poised. Until Jeffress asked about that roundtable that was objected out. And my use of "shiv" is my own word. Fleischer didn't use it.

Walton: How many reporters were at the gaggle that Rice was at?

Fl 8 reporters 4-5 cameramen and photographers.

Walton As PS, did you think it proper to ask Mr Libby if what he told you was classified, given that he told you it was hush hush.

Fl I never heard those words hush hush QT used before WRT national security. I never thought I should. I wish I had. The procedure is very strict, any time anyone from national security would say to me something was classified, it always began, "this is classified." The procedure is strict.

P You testified that you believed that the name Plame or Plamay was used. What makes you think it was used?

Fl my memory.

Addington - January 30

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton Can you provide clarification why sometimes request for documentations was sent to Libby, and why, sometimes, it was not.

A I have to make a judgment who might have responsive documents. The first one was very broad. For some of the later requests, such as originals of Scooter Libby's documents, I' don't have to send them to the guys in the motor pool. There were a few requests for particular things, so I could go to the person who had that particular set of records.

Walton Are you familiar with practice of witnesses as far as reviewing information before they testify in criminal matter.

A If attorneys have access to records, they will review them.

Walton are you familiar to the practice of witnesses preparing for testimony

A I believe there is a rule about access to your own documents.

Miller - January 31

from Rory O'Connor ...

Following a ten-minute recess, the Judge asks Miller questions from the jury. First, why didn't she contact Libby for a waiver earlier?

Good question.

Miller says it was because she did not yet have an agreement with Fitzgerald that questioning would be limited to one source--Libby.

Why did she makes the decision to go to jail?

"Because all of my reporting depending on people being able to trust me," she says. "I felt as a professional, as an ethical matter, I had no choice, just trying to do the right thing vis a vis my sources. It was too important..."

Have you ever had previous memory losses such as this in your career?

"Yes," says Miller. She gives an example from preparing her last book. Her notes corrected her memory--she had misremembered it, and from that time on tried to be very careful taking notes.

Any agreement with Libby that might have been considered a quid pro quo?

No, other than the way he was to be identified. "He didn't ask me to do anything in exchange," she says.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton Why didn't you or attorney contact Libby earlier.

M BC I was afraid of fishing expedition. It was only after I had both things.

Walton If you had had his personal waiver immediately, would you have testified

M I still needed agreement that it would be this one source on this subject. As soon as I got both, I went to testify.

Walton. Why did you make decision to go to jail.

M BC all of my reporting depended on my ability to protect sources. Until I had something written from Libby, not something his boss asked him to sign, I felt that as a professional matter, it was all I could do. I wasn't trying to be a martyr. You can't operate that way in DC, it was too important in national security reporting.

Walton Have you ever had memory losses like the memory loss you said you had with LIbby.

M When I was preparing my last book, there was an incident. I went back and found out the story was very different. I'd actually misremembered it. From taht time, I've been careful about notes, trying to be careful.

Walton Did you make agreement with Libby regarding sharing of info that might be a quid pro quo.

M No, only the way in which he was to be identified. There was no quid pro quo.

Walton. The notes that you found after you were asked to look for notes. Where did yo locate those.

M Right under my desk at NYT in shopping bag.

Walton IS that where you kept your notes.

M That's where I kept notes for a relevant period of time before I went to jail.

Walton is taht your standard method of archiving.

M I meant to archive them. I assumed I'd have time to take the notebooks home for safekeeping. That's why they were there. But the marshalls took me away right away.

Walton how many other notebooks.

M About 15 or 20.

Cooper - January 31

from Rory O'Connor ...

"Did you ever investigate about he forgery question vis a vis the Niger/uranium story?"

Cooper: No--that wasn't my beat.

Walton: Did Dickerson tell you what he had heard in Africa?

Cooper: Yes.

A few more fairly inconsequential detailed questions about her emails, and Cooper is dismissed.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton: One of the questions I'm not going to be able to ask, if I don't ask, don't speculate about what response would have been.

Walton: did you ever investigate by whom and why those documents were forged.

MC I think others did. I never looked into Niger forgery question in any detail. I cover WH this sort of had more to do with Italian embassy. For whatever reason it fell out of my purview.

Walton during the conversaton with Dickerson, did he relay any information to you that he had received over there.

MC Yes

Walton Did you think about substance of conversation with Libby before subpoena

MC No, I focused on it well before subpoena, once to write war on wilson question mark piece, and once when the disclosure of this CIA agent became a big deal, I had many conversations to reflect on my conversations with Libby and others.


Walton The response that characterized Ms Wilson as CIA agent, you'll have to discount that, it's not an issue in this case, therefore you can't speculate about that.

Walton regarding 7/11/2003 email from you to Duffy one of the lines indicated Rove/P&C,

MC privileged and confidential. I thought it'd keep him from forwarding that to others.

Walton TB

MC A reference to Timothy Burger, the correspondant for handling intelligence issues.

Bond - February 5

from Lance Dutson ...

"Why didn't you write down (Libby attorney) Tate's comments during interview?"

Bond: "Libby was being interviewed, not Tate"

Bond says in other cases, it is her practice not to write down attorney's statements in notes.

Jury asks why she didn't take notes.

Bond id's Agent Kirk Armfield as the agent taking notes, chalks it up to the fact that she took notes the first time, he took them the second time, no particular reason.

from Swopa ...

Judge Walton (JW): (to jury) Several of the questions you've submitted I can't ask. Please note that in these cases, you shouldn't speculate to yourself about the answer, nor should you discuss it with your fellow jurors.

JW: (to Bond) Why didn't you write down the comments by Mr. Libby's lawyer in October 2003 that Libby hadn't had enough time to review documents?

B: I typically just write down the notes from the interviewee.

Russert - February 8

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton (W): Had there been any discussions before Novak article of Wilson's wife

Tim Russert (T): No.

W: After his article was published?

T: Yes.

W: During deposition, were you given a list of questions ahead of time?

T: No.

W: Any script you were given?

T: No.

W: Did you approve or ban any questions in advance?

T: No, I answered what I was asked.

W: Did you relate any claims by Mr. Libby about Wilson's wife to Shapiro? (on July 8th, apparently)

T: Only remember talking to him about Chris Mathews.

W: What were circumstances of call to Buffalo News reporter?

T: (explains Fazio-Clinton debate, what reporter said, what he complained about. Says he then sent a letter to that effect, and paper printed clarification.)

W: Remember when you called reporter? How long it lasted, etc?

T: I don't. Remember letter more than phone call.

Woodward - February 12

from Kim Pearson ...

As of June 27, 2003, do you know of other reporters who knew that Plame worked at the CIA?

Woodward: It's possible.

from Jeralyn Merritt ...

Juror question: As of June 27, did other reporters know anything about Wilson's wife working for the CIA?

Woodward: It's possible. He told Pincus.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton: Is it your understanding that any other journalist knew about Plame.

BW The reporter working on it knew it. I told him.

Sanger - February 12

from Kim Pearson ...

Judge: Ask Sanger whether he recalls when he learned about Valerie Plame's identity.

Sanger: "Probably would have been with the publication of [Robert] Novak's column."

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton: Did there come a time when you learned of Wilson's wife.

DS With the publication of Novak's column.

Walton: that was how you found out.

DS Yes.

Pincus - February 12

No Questions

Novak - February 12

from Kim Pearson ...

Walton: Did you discuss the information from Armitage with anyone other than Karl Rove?

Novak: Yes, your honor.

Walton: Who is that?

Novak: Says he spoke to a spokesman for the CIA.

Wells also asked Novak whether he shared a draft of his column on July 11 with lobbyist Rick Hohlt, whom Novak identified as a close friend. Wells said that he talked to Holt almost every day. Wells asked whether Novak considered Holt "a gossip." Novak said that Hohlt talks to a lot of people.

from Jeralyn Merritt ...

Did you discuss Wilson's wife with anyone else between learning on the 8th and writing column.

Yes, Bill Harlow, spokesman for the CIA. I believe that was the only one. He testified he might have asked Libby about it but he didn't get a positive response.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton: Without relating what someone would have said in response to what you said. Did you, once you learned about Wilson's wife and the fact that she worked at the CIA, did you discuss it with anyone prior to your article.

Novak: yes, I spoke to Bill Harlow.

Fitz-just the names.

Walton: Harlow

RN Spokesman for CIA. I testified that I might have asked Libby about, but I don't have a clear recollection bc I don't have a clear response.

Kessler - February 12

No Questions

Thomas - February 12

No Questions

Carl Ford (past Asst. Sec. of State) - February 12

No Questions

Abramson - February 13

No Questions

Hannah - February 13

from Kim Pearson ...

Judge: "Did you ever think that important national security issues were ever short-changed" because of Libby's memory lapses.

Hannah: "No, I think that would be an unfair criticism." He added that Libby handled his responsibilities as well as anyone in that position.

from Marcy Wheeler ...

Walton Aside from Libby's difficulty with memory did it lead him to have concerns about his effectiveness?

Hannah Never

Walton When Libby had memory lapses, what was done to trigger recall of things discussed

Hannah He was quite good at remembering ideas and concepts, very bad at figuring out where they came from, how they came to him.

Walton Would Libby deny that you had informed him of these things

Hannah Never

Hannah This was a fairly regular pattern with Scooter. He was good at remembering his own arguments, key points, key factual points that he would want to make, he was good at keeping his arguments organized.

Walton Nat Seucrity issues greater than, less than, equal to normal level?

Hannah As I said, this period since 9/11 has been particularly intense for any relative period of American foreign policy, that period was particularly intense because of initiative in Iraq, liberation of Iraq and aftermath of that, having that many American forces in that country. Particularly fast moving period of time for top govt officials. More intense period in always intense environment

Walton How would you compare intensity with your responsibilities at this time [It is the year of Iran]

Hannah IN some ways there were such major questions of security, and the situation was so new still in a sense that I'm not sure in the 15 or 16 months taht we've experienced anything quite like that. Iraq was sort of on a course [to hell] There have been a lot of adjustments to that course. Nothing quite like that period of intensity. Together with everything else in the region. A little bit unique, at a higher intensity than I'm forced to deal with

Walton Sec Issues every shortchanged by Libby bc of schedule

Hannah That woudl be unfair criticism. Anybody who worked at these kinds of levels, to get through inbox is a real luxury, to stay ahead of the curve, I'd say he managed as well not only in Nat Sec affairs, as well as any other boss I've worked for

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